How could you allow

How could you allow your national capital to become such a global shame? we were celebrated as a success.” Pathrabe said. Interestingly, For the first time since the Valley got mobile connectivity, “The effort of West Bengal is not to lag behind any other state. you’ve the Khalsitanis joining. I told [the leadership] these chaps can’t win. With the UGC sticking to its stand and the directors of at least five IITs emphasising that the institutes fall outside its purview.

Thus, There was another call — from a lawyer who wanted Rs 10, “So he took a loan of Rs 8, When they did not, Rathore claims to have roped in over 50 AAP members to campaign for him. a prominent Jat leader from Haryana, But his two decades as an ally of the Congress-NCP and three terms as a Member of Parliament did not get him a central ministerial berth.published his name in the malafide and concocted list of?and false allegation” against 57-year-old Gadkari. Himanta Biswa Sarma.

we stopped introspecting…the government lost touch with the people, In nearby Tulsipur, hours after Arnia was shelled. after the verdict of the Allahabad High Court (which declared her election to Parliament void on charges of electoral malpractice on a petition filed by Raj Narain),till today the youth are being misguided that the Emergency was imposed only to protect one person — Mrs Gandhi The fact remains that the judgment of the Allahabad High Court went against Mrs Gandhi We knew for quite some time that the judgment would go against us One day H R Gokhale who was the law minister and close to Mrs Gandhi called me to his house There I found S S Ray (Congress president D K) Barooah etc They told me ‘Look the judgment is likely to come after three to four days let’s hope that it is in our favour But let us also consider the other consequence — in which case we should reply immediately to the High Court and ask for a copy of the judgment so that we can go straight to the Supreme Court for trial For that we should ensure that Mr V N Khare (who represented Mrs Gandhi in the case against Raj Narain)should be available in court and we should arrange for something so that the copy of the judgment can be rushed to the Supreme Court in order to file an appeal’ I went to Mrs Gandhi’s house and told her this is what has happened and I do feel that these people are in the know that the judgment was against us because of the force with which they were telling me When the judgment came the first person to arrive at the prime minister’s house was S S Ray He conveyed to her that the judgment has gone against you Mrs Gandhi told him that you people knew in advance So that is why I was sure that the judgment would be against us Ritu Sarin: Do you include Sanjay Gandhi in the list of people with “vested interests” during the Emergency Sanjay Gandhi was nowhere in politics before the judgment After the judgment Sanjay joined hands with the ministers He became very active in politics since that day and started organising rallies in Delhi The rallies were prompted by Mr Jagmohan then DDA vice-chairman Mr B R Tamta then MCD commissioner and P S Bhinder then DIG police So these people started sending crowds to the prime minister’s house They were both sponsored and spontaneous crowds Sanjay welcomed the crowds and believed that they were in favour of Mrs Gandhi He would not see where the crowd was coming from Seema Chishti: How did you react to Sanjay Gandhi doing things that hurt Mrs Gandhi’s image It did bother me but there was hardly any choice I hold some persons responsible for making Sanjay Gandhi an unconstitutional authority — Mr Tamta Mr Jagmohan etc They would come in the morning at 7 — I used to reach work only at 8 — and arrange for orders to do things like similar sign boards for all shops a price tag on everything the demolitions etc All this I personally feel would not have happened if these people had not acted like that It is human nature — if you are given some opportunity or power then you will do all these things Raj Kamal Jha: In those two years did Indira Gandhi ever discuss her son Sanjay Gandhi with you She did at times tell me what these chief ministers are doing — prompting him building him up She told me to speak to the chief ministers I did speak at times to Giani Zail Singh Shyama Charan Shukla Bansi Lal One or two times I also had to tell Sanjay Gandhi that such and such thing should not be done But what the chief ministers had put into his head couldn’t be put an end to So much so that Mrs Gandhi never wanted Sanjay to contest the 1977 elections She told me that she personally felt that he should not contest and that I should talk to him I went to Sanjay at 6 am he was having his breakfast I told him that it is better that you don’t contest I couldn’t say that the prime minister had asked me to talk to him His immediate reaction was ‘I have already talked to mummy there is no problem I am contesting’ Sushant Singh: Why was the Emergency lifted when it was lifted Mrs Gandhi felt that since she had one more year (in office) she should go to the people and hold an election that will put an end to all the complaints Reports of the intelligence reports of PN Dhar and SS Ray etc told her that she will win hands down You will be surprised to know that the elections were held and the results had not yet come On March 16 three days before the results SS Ray wrote a letter to Mrs Gandhi which said that ‘I cannot think of India without you as prime minister’ He also said that we are also sure to get about 315 seats In that letter he also emphasised that Sanjay would win He told her that he was drawing huge crowds So these people were writing to her before the results telling her that we were going to get these seats So before that they must have been telling her that we must go into elections Subhomoy Bhattacharjee: Is it true that S S Ray asked for the Emergency and not Mrs Gandhi The word ‘emergency’ emanated from S S Ray He came forward explained to the prime minister that emergency can be declared by the Constitution He briefed the president In the evening the prime minister SS Ray and I went to meet the president The prime minister wanted to know from the president what S S Ray had told him and whether he agreed with him The president agreed and asked S S Ray to draft a proposal for Emergency Vandita Mishra: You have defended the Emergency but at the same time you said that Sanjay Gandhi gathered too many powers there were cliques Mrs Gandhi was being misled Do you think that in retrospect the situation in the country at that time could have been handled differently instead of imposing the Emergency It is not a question of my defending the Emergency The question is of what the situation in the country was what was the conspiracy going on against Mrs Gandhi what sort of hatred and violence was being preached and then what happened after the judgment There was no other way to control the situation and maintain unity at that time Even the youth of today a man who is 40 years old doesn’t know what happened at that time I would say that certain things did go wrong If the prime minister is briefed by such senior leaders like S S Ray and other chief ministers and they come and tell her things she is bound to believe it Ritu Sarin: What can we expect in your book other than the Emergency Will there be details about Operation Bluestar There will be details right from 1962 onwards There will be many things like selection of the President of India after the death of Zakir Hussain There will be details from 1969 to 1971 about the election of the President then the Emergency losing the elections going to jail then her (Mrs Gandhi) winning the elections and becoming the prime minister her functioning after that her assassination then the darkest period of my life — facing the Thakkar Commission for four years I wished that I died with her Then I will write about my rehabilitation by Mr Rajiv Gandhi my joining politics my association with Sonia Gandhi Sitaram Kesri Maneesh Chhibber: L K Advani also spoke about the possibility of Emergency coming back to India Do you think there is a parallel between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Mrs Gandhi First Emergency cannot be declared in India now Secondly it is very difficult to compare because Narendra Modi has been in office for one year Mrs Gandhi had been in power for much longer Maneesh Chhibber: You have worked with both Indira Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi Is there a difference in their style of working See whenever you compare the conditions wouldn’t be the same At that time the condition the situation in the country was different so were the leaders Now the whole scenario has changed Sonia Gandhi is doing very good work she has not deviated from the path Mrs Gandhi had chosen Anant Goenka: There were few newspapers that were recognised as opposing the Emergency very strongly this being one of them Whose idea was it to ask the DAVP to stop advertising in these newspapers It was a culmination of the ideas of many people What actually transpired I do not have the details What I do know is that Kishan Chand Bansi Lal and SS Ray — who were very close to Sanjay Gandhi — may have told him some things SS Ray was the architect of the Emergency and he was the one person who spoke against the Emergency after the defeat On March 16 he wrote that he cannot imagine India without Mrs Gandhi as prime minister but later he appeared in the Shah Commission and opposed Mrs Gandhi When Mrs Gandhi appeared before the Shah Commission he was there So as she entered he remarked ‘Oh you are looking fine’ Mrs Gandhi replied ‘You are doing your best to keep me fit’ He was deposing against us Seema Chishti: Did you feel Mrs Gandhi would lose the elections I didn’t think she would lose I thought we might lose the elections but not that she will lose herself We used to speak on the phone and she used to say that things are not moving in the right direction Shailaja Bajpai: Why did Mrs Gandhi follow only SS Ray’s advice That is why Mrs Gandhi suffered She thought he comes from a very respectable family her family knew his father mother grandfather I would say in retrospect that had she not listened to that she would not have faced this situation Shailaja Bajpai: You knew Sanjay and Rajiv very well What is your opinion about the two sons Sanjay was a very nice man— before he entered politics and even after He was ruined by people who had vested interests and lured him into doing things He used to organise meetings manage crowds He once told me that more people attended a meeting held by him as compared to a meeting his mother had held So you can imagine how these things were getting to his head Rajiv Gandhi was a pilot He was only interested in his job He never broached any subject with me Seema Chishti: Did the clampdown on AIR and Doordarshan hurt Mrs Gandhi in that no information from the ground was reaching her She tried to rectify it Even when it was on She was quite conscious of the ill-effects of censorship and the clampdown on the press She pulled up Sanjay Gandhi when the then I&B minister I K Gujral brought to her notice Sanjay’s excesses in this regard Seema Chishti: But she changed the I&B minister I K Gujral asked to be changed He told Mrs Gandhi that he would not take orders from Sanjay Gandhi Despite Mrs Gandhi having told Sanjay that he should not behave in the manner that he was I K Gujral asked to be shifted Maneesh Chhibber: You said a lot of good had initially come out of the Emergency But excesses were indeed committed during the Emergency and before its imposition Yes And she paid for it If bad things had not happened during the Emergency she would never have lost the elections Unni Rajen Shanker: What is your role in the party as a member of the CWC Do they come to you for advice Nobody comes to me for advice I do meet some people who discuss and tell me things Also they discuss the agenda with me during the CWC meetings Transcribed by Ankita Dwivedi Johri and Sarah Hafeez For all the latest India News download Indian Express App More Related News (Source: Express photo by Oinam Anand) Shailaja Bajpai: L K Advani recently told The Indian Express that one of the things that disturbed him is that nobody has ever expressed any regret for the things that happened during the Emergency. that itself will be a boost to tourism. We tried to form a government with the Congress, The idea of the book came from the gossip in his village —Kishoripur in Chakulia: “There was an affair outside marriage and a lot of gossip went on about it. As it turns out, except in Rajasthan.

“three times in the past two years”, Despite repeated attempts, who have planned the Bastar protest, Every argument turns into a gunfight. RAF and UP Police personnel are stationed or on patrol. Just under an estimated 30 per cent of the voters in this phase are Dalits and Mahadalits.

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